About 2.8 million people per year die in the United States from heart disease, cancer, injuries and various other illnesses, according to the data compiled by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC).
On paper, those COVID-19 deaths amount to a 3.6 to 8.6 percent increase in American deaths. In reality, the percentage will be lower.
How much lower? No one knows.
But what is known is that COVID-19 strikes heavily at those with heart disease, diabetes, cancer and other pre-existing illnesses.
Doctors in China have reported similar findings as have officials at the CDC. A CDC study released Tuesday reported, that “among all COVID-19 patients with complete information on underlying conditions or risk factors, 184 deaths occurred; 173 deaths (94 percent) were reported among patients with at least one underlying condition.
“These results are consistent with findings from China and Italy, which suggest that patients with underlying health conditions and risk factors, including, but not limited to, diabetes mellitus, hypertension, COPD, coronary artery disease, cerebrovascular disease, chronic renal disease, and smoking, might be at higher risk for severe disease or death from COVID-19.”
Given that some people who die “COVID-19 related deaths,” as the Boston Globe refers to these fatalities, were destined to die from pre-existing conditions such as cancer and heart disease before the year is out, the number of people reported dying from those diseases is sure to drop in 2020.
How much will it drop? Again, no one knows.
What is also obvious is that many if not most Americans are now living in fear of the newest disease to threaten in ways they never lived in fear of those old, established diseases.
Daily scares
In crisis, people seek the safety of the herd. Their instinctive clustering when turned loose from their jobs during a time of crisis has led fearful cities around the country to shut down beaches, parks and other public spaces amid concerns Americans left to their own devices cannot safely practice “social distancing.”
San Francisco closed playgrounds, dog parks and picnic areas, told residents to stay off golf courses and sports courts, banned most construction, and extended until May 3 a “stay-at-home” order as one of the country’s oldest “sanctuary cities” tried to turn itself into an urban interment camp.
The city went well beyond President Donald Trump’s national, month-long directive for “social distancing,” which basically says Americans need to stay at least six feet apart to minimize the risks of infecting each other.
And at this point it would appear no government can really do too much in terms of controlling the citizenry. And worried American media appears to believe Trump is doing too little.
Although COVID-19 deaths – 80 percent of which strike down people over age 65, according to the data – differ greatly from war deaths – which overwhelmingly kill young men in the prime of life – mainstream media and some health authorities are quick to point out that anyone can come down with the disease.
“Many New York Coronavirus Patients Are Young, Surprising Doctors,” Bloomberg headlined Wednesday, although this should not have come as a much of a surprise. China, where the disease is believed to have originated, was reporting similar infection rates across all but the very youngest age groups from the beginning of the pandemic.
The big difference with COVID-19 is not in who gets infected, but who dies. The dead are overwhelmingly elders in significant part because they are more likely to harbor the pre-existing conditions noted above.
After “adjusting for demography and under-ascertainment,” the researchers wrote, “we obtained a best estimate of the case fatality ratio in China of 1.38 percent with substantially higher ratios in older age groups (0.32 percent in in those aged less than 60 years versus 6.4 percent in those aged 60 years and older), up to 13.4 percent in those aged 80 years or older. Estimates of case fatality ratio from international cases stratified by age were consistent with those from China….
“Our estimated overall infection fatality ratio for China was 0.66 percent.”
The latter number is the key one epidemiologists have been trying to ferret out since the pandemic began. It defines the general risk of dying from this disease. As Oxford University’s Our World in Data puts it:
The infection fatality rate for the common flu in the U.S. is around 0.1, meaning COVID-19 is generally about seven-times more deadly. But the math isn’t that simple given The Lancet data indicating the disease is about 20 times more deadly for those over 60 than for those under 60.
Risk assessment
Given the nature of the patients most threatened by COVID-19, some doctors have suggested a path somewhat different from the one now being followed by many states and municipalities, including those in Alaska which have issued stay-at-home orders for everyone but essential workers.
(Editor’s note: No one should take any of what follows as a suggestion to ignore state-at-home orders or abandon social distancing or intensified personal hygiene. All are fundamental means of avoiding any infectious disease. Protect yourself.)
“This can be open war, with all the fallout that portends, or it could be something more surgical. The United States and much of the world so far have gone in for the former.”
He warned against the all-out-war strategy as have some others, including scientist Carl Heneghan. Heneghan heads the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine at Oxford University, and expressly cautioned against the sort of lockdowns now taking place in many countries around the world.
In a bold challenge to the prevailing wisdom, he and colleague Tom Jefferson called the lockdown a false promise.
“Lockdown is going to bankrupt all of us and our descendants and is unlikely at this point to slow or halt viral circulation as the genie is out of the bottle,” they wrote. “What the current situation boils down to is this: is economic meltdown a price worth paying to halt or delay what is already amongst us?”
The idea has gained some traction in the medical community, but not much. Political leaders, meanwhile, have largely gone in the opposite direction. The United Kingdom suggested it might let the virus spread enough to create what is known as “herd immunity,” but quickly backed away when some scientists and the public protested.
The Dutch suggested the same idea, backed away, but are now studying it. Meanwhile there is the suggestion from many scientists that herd immunity is in some way inevitable.
At that point, the disease becomes unable to easily jump from person to person and fades out. This is herd immunity. Unfortunately, some pathogens – most notably the flu – are able mutate and again return.
Katz and Heneghan have suggested that the best way to get herd immunity might be to shelter those vulnerable to fatal COVID-19 infections and let the disease run much like the flu in the rest of the population.
“The data from South Korea, where tracking the coronavirus has been by far the best to date, indicate that as much as 99 percent of active cases in the general population are ‘mild’ and do not require specific medical treatment,” Katz argued in his NYT op-ed. “The small percentage of cases that do require such services are highly concentrated among those age 60 and older, and further so the older people are.”
But responding to COVID-19 in this way at a population-level generally runs counter to the beliefs of Western societies that prize individuals. The mere possibility that a previously unknown disease could kill younger people – and it has – appears to terrify much of the Western world.
Thus Katz’s suggestion of an alternative approach aimed at protecting the elderly and those at risk because of ill health while putting everyone else back to work has to date gained no political support.
Whether it will ever gain serious consideration is an unknown, but there are more than a handful of scientists who share Katz’s concerns about long term problems inherent in the current strategy.
“If we succeed in slowing the spread of coronavirus from torrent to trickle, then when does the society-wide disruption end?” Katz asked. “When will it be safe for healthy children and younger teachers to return to school, much less older teachers and teachers with chronic illnesses? When will it be safe for the work force to repopulate the workplace, given that some are in the at-risk group for severe infection?
“When would it be safe to visit loved ones in nursing homes or hospitals? When once again might grandparents pick up their grandchildren?
“There are many possible answers, but the most likely one is: We just don’t know. We could wait until there’s an effective treatment, a vaccine or transmission rates fall to undetectable levels. But what if those are a year or more away?”
The answer to most of those questions to date have been driven by fear. The public and political view is that COVID-19 needs to be stopped and stopped now, although there is no hope that is going to happen.
When health professionals talk about “flattening the curve,” something which does appear to be working, they are not talking about reducing the number of COVID-19 infections. They are talking about spreading them out over a longer period of time to reduce the number of people in need of hospitalization when infections reach their peak.
The belief is that if the peak can be held down, more people can be treated more effectively in hospital and thus fewer people will die, though people will die. Lots of people will die.
The federal prediction of 100,000 to 240,000 deaths is based on continuation of the curve-flattening provisions in place across the country today. Those provisions vary from state to state but are approaching the point of a nationwide lock down.
As death rates climb, protective measures aimed at keeping Americans in their homes and away from each other are only increasing. Thirty-eight states now have formal stay-at-home orders in place.
Florida, which had been reluctant, just joined them. Gov. Ron DeSantis had “resisted issuing a statewide order of this kind up until this point more than 30 days after the first case of the virus was reported in Florida, but on Wednesday, as Florida’s coronavirus cases neared 7,000, including more than 80 dead, he said it was time,” Orlando’s WKMG News reported.
New York has been under such an order since March 20, but the number of infections and the death toll continue to rise. Many states and cities with lock downs plan to continue them at least through the end of this month.
University of Alaska Anchorage researchers have warned the Municipality of Anchorage that the university’s COVID-19 model indicates the current policy of sheltering in place in the state’s largest city should tamp down the number of infections, but “predicts a rebound of cases will occur in July.
“The authors emphasize the more successful suppression measures are at containing transmission and spread of the virus the larger the ‘rebound’ when those measures are relaxed,” the report said.
The reality is that no one knows exactly how or where this pandemic ends, but all the experts are talking about it ending the way most similar pandemics have ended and that is with some form of acquired human resistance to the pathogen, either through herd immunity – as in the case of the Spanish flu – or thanks to some form of vaccination – as was the case with small pox which once had a case fatality rate of 30 percent. (Three out of 10 people who came down with the disease died.)
“A pivot right now from trying to protect all people to focusing on the most vulnerable remains entirely plausible,” Katz wrote in his March 20 NYT op-ed. “With each passing day, however, it becomes more difficult. The path we are on may well lead to uncontained viral contagion and monumental collateral damage to our society and economy. A more surgical approach is what we need.”
Now, Americans can all only hope that Katz was wrong, and that we aren’t headed for “monumental collateral damage.”
Categories: News
“We are on the verge of a global transformation.
All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order.”
-David Rockefeller
Researchers in Australia report that Ivermectin, an FDA-approved drug commonly used to treat parasites, appears to be effective in treating the SARS-COV-2 coronavirus (COVID-19). The drug is widely available and can be “repurposed” for this application, doctors said.
I am trying to compare in NY/NYC flu related deaths to Covid-19 deaths for the same period. Did they even correctly report flu deaths the past few weeks? Was there a drop in flu related deaths in March because they labelled them Covid-19? Conspiracy? Perhaps..
“Flu Update: April 2020 Numbers Are In
Flu season is officially underway with all regions of the country now seeing flu activity
March 31, 2020
While the public deals with the spread of the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) to New York State and major regions of the United States, flu season remains underway with the latest data being reported by the CDC.
So far this season, there have been 45 million flu illnesses, at least 300,000 hospitalizations, and up to 46,000 deaths from flu, of which more than 100 are pediatric–a higher total at this point of the year than any season in the past decade.
New York State is reporting 156,659 positive cases to date, according to the CDC. The latest data (ending March 21) shows a 45% decrease in reported cases from the previous week.”
Craig seems intent on attempting to cash in on this, gain him some fame by minimizing the risk of the deadliest global pandemic of our generation.
And he attempts to do so by throwing out some unrelated data, without any objective correlation, and smugly thinking he’s showed up epidemiologists, immunologists, and molecular scientists the world over.
Craig has no qualifications whatsoever, none.
I’d dearly love to see him take this show of his on the road, walk down the streets of New York today, and see how well his attempt to minimize the risks goes over.
I suspect the families who have lost loved ones will not be quick to embrace his schtick. Like the family that lost 7 of their members so far.
Cases and deaths are still rising exponentially all over the world, nearly every country is now counting cases of infection, and Craig?
He’s drawn his conclusions already, he’d like you to think like him.
He’s given little actual thought to his conclusions.
My conclusion is he’s dangerously maladapted to provide advice.
Bill: Your conclusion would make more sense if you’d actually read the story.
Nobody but you is minimizing anything. The reality here is that there are competing issues: physical health and economic health.
It’s sad that a family loses even one member. It’s equally sad that lots of folks formerly at work in service industries that have been shut down are finding it difficult to feed their kids.
Now, send that check or make a Paypal contribution so that least one of your claims has at least a smidgeon of substance to it.
There are some indications that NY is diddling the reporting. They are accused of reporting any death from any reason as a Wuhan death if the patient tested positive for the virus. Due to the sheer flow of people, the the postmortem analysis of actual cause of death is not being done. The number or reported Wuhan deaths in NY may be high by as much as a factor of 6-7. Cheers –
Hope this bastard is sued for millions.
“Enough is enough. New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo needs to IMMEDIATELY lift his pharmacy ban that is forcing New Yorkers stricken by the coronavirus into an already overburdened hospital system to get the potentially life-saving drug hydroxychloroquine.
Because of an executive order issued by the Democratic governor, any new prescriptions for hydroxychloroquine must go through the already overrun hospital system. This makes no sense.
Sources tell me that Cuomo has access to MILLIONS of doses of hydroxychloroquine right now. The federal government has tens of millions of doses and has made millions of doses available to the New York governor.”
Hope this loser is sued for millions.
Enough is enough. “New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo needs to IMMEDIATELY lift his pharmacy ban that is forcing New Yorkers stricken by the coronavirus into an already overburdened hospital system to get the potentially life-saving drug hydroxychloroquine.
Because of an executive order issued by the Democratic governor, any new prescriptions for hydroxychloroquine must go through the already overrun hospital system. This makes no sense.
Sources tell me that Cuomo has access to MILLIONS of doses of hydroxychloroquine right now. The federal government has tens of millions of doses and has made millions of doses available to the New York governor.”
Interesting read and a breath of fresh air. Also read this morning that most Americans favor Universal Basic Income (welfare). Imagine that. Wow! Combine the 2 and what do we have?
“Actual Hospitalizations for Coronavirus Significantly Lower than Projections in Model”
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/04/03/actual-hospitalizations-for-coronavirus-significantly-lower-than-projections-in-model/
If you look at the numbers virtually every country with government run Healthcare is faring much, much worse that we are. This should be the end of government run Healthcare across the globe.
Funny, Democrats say “this is why we need gov run healthcare. Typical. All lies but Dems swallow it.
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2020/03/25/coronavirus-proves-it-we-need-medicare-all
Novel: new and original; not like anything seen before.
What is with people that have a hard time with the simple? Always comparing something, “About 2.8 million people per year die in the United States from heart disease, cancer, injuries and various other illnesses” all of which are KNOWN (statistically and risk wise) and comparing it to something unknown?
“Typically, between 30 and 50 people in the US die from dog bites each year.”
“It’s just a flu, it will be gone by April.”
Monk,
If you have to ask why people have to compare the novel (new) with the old and known, it is clear you have no understanding of the human condition. We compare light and dark, hot and cold, apples and oranges…welcome to humanity.
People are scared, panic is abundant, fear is all around, ignorance is the norm.
There is a global pandemic, the first real threat to humanity in any of our lives.
People are stupid, more so during times of panic.
I know you think your glib remarks will insulate you, they won’t.
Good luck munk.
Steve O says:
“..the first real threat to humanity in any of our lives.”
Apparently you missed Monk’s point that 3 million Americans already die each year from other causes?
The real threat is the lockdown of our economy and the push to Socialism that seems to be a bipartisan affair these days.
Just sit in your house and watch TV…the goovie folks will mail you a check.
Oh by the way…you can leave for liquor and fast food but EVERYTHING else is closed?
Seem OK to U?
Steve,
So now you also do not know what the difference between a novel (new) threat and a known threat? Were you alive in during the last real global pandemic that killed millions Steve? The part of my quote you left off that is pertinent to the part you did quote was “There is a global pandemic,” when added to the rest of what I said it makes a difference in the meaning of what was said…as in “There is a global pandemic, the first real threat to humanity in any of our lives.” I am glad to see you are finally using quotes in the correct manner, even if you are using them selectively.
Steve O,
Spare me the “novel” made for TV drama.
All these viruses were “new” at the time…West Nile, Zika, Sars, Ebola, the other versions of Coronavirus (of which are listed on the back of Lysol wipes).
Even the standard flu is a “new” or novel strain each year.
If you or anyone in government really wanted to stop the spread of this virus we would have stopped flights from China to the U.S.?
(At least for passengers like we did for Europe)
Instead it is reported that Asian tourists are still showing up in at least one town in Alaska?
So Steve, not only do you have chicken little syndrome but now you are also the boy who cried wolf.
Other than you, who is reporting Asian tourists travelling around the state? And are you now calling for a travel ban or do you think a travel ban is unconstitutional, it’s hard to keep track with all your nonsensical, contrary, and hypocritical ramblings.
Steve O,
Folks in the community are “reporting” that a van load of Asian tourists showed up in Talkeetna yesterday and were not welcome.
Did you not remember that air travel is still permitted from China to the U.S for passengers?
Unlike Europe, air travel was never banned from China?
I can see essential goods, but tourists…give me a break!
You can call me all the names in the book, but this $hit $torm is starting to look more like a global coup and less of a virus.
Locals get their private sector economy crushed…government folks get billions of pork and corporations get ca$h to buy back their stocks?
You say “hypocritical”…well how do you justify a local population on “lockdown” while Asians can fly thousands of miles to any place in America any day of the week?
This is all happening over something that 99 percent of us would survive?
Tell that to the 8 million Americans expected to default on mortgages this year do to lost jobs.
Steve,
Don’t you ever get tired of being wrong? “Unlike Europe, air travel was never banned from China” You haven’t heard of the Chinese travel ban, all of your lefty friends were in an uproar about it when it first came out…no doubt you were too.
Issued January 31, 2020
NOW, THEREFORE, I, DONALD J. TRUMP, President of the United States, by the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including sections 212(f) and 215(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), 8 U.S.C. 1182(f) and 1185(a), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code, hereby find that the unrestricted entry into the United States of persons described in section 1 of this proclamation would, except as provided for in section 2 of this proclamation, be detrimental to the interests of the United States, and that their entry should be subject to certain restrictions, limitations, and exceptions. I therefore hereby proclaim the following:
Section 1. Suspension and Limitation on Entry. The entry into the United States, as immigrants or nonimmigrants, of all aliens who were physically present within the People’s Republic of China, excluding the Special Administrative Regions of Hong Kong and Macau, during the 14-day period preceding their entry or attempted entry into the United States is hereby suspended and limited subject to section 2 of this proclamation.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/proclamation-suspension-entry-immigrants-nonimmigrants-persons-pose-risk-transmitting-2019-novel-coronavirus/
It really is amazing how misinformed and wrong you ALWAYS are. I like good conspiracy theories, they are fun, but you are either the most misinformed person in history or you are paid to spread misinformation…which is it Steve?
Steve O,
Many Chinese nationals with Visas were still allowed travel until March 26th from what I research.
Your declaration did not include visa holders.
Hopefully all Asian flights of passengers are now stopped until the pandemic subsides.
It is possible that the Asian tourists came from within the U.S. since airports are still offering flights from S.F.?
Either way, air travel has always been the number 1 vector for C-19 and over 125,000 people moved through U.S. airports yesterday.
Steve,
Why does their race matter so much to you? Seems a little racist to me that you are discriminating against these tourists because they are Asian.
Are you again calling for travel bans or do you still think they are unconstitutional? I only ask because you seem to change your opinion with every post.
Steve O…
Here is one of the loopholes that I found in your argument…
“The executive order calls to deny entry of all foreign nationals (except immediate family members of U.S. citizens) who have travelled to mainland China in the past 14 days…”
(Observer.com)
So until China fully banned all travel on March 26th (in or out of China).
Some Chinese nationals with Visas and family in the U.S. were still allowed to travel over here.
It was not fully shut down till the 26th of March.
Steve,
So, you’ve established that you never tire of being wrong.
At 1242 pm you said “air travel is still permitted from China to the U.S for passengers?
Unlike Europe, air travel was never banned from China”
And at 134 pm you said air travel from China “was not fully shut down till the 26th of March”
See what you can do when you inform yourself? You can discover the truth and stop spreading the misinformation and outright lies you so frequently do. I’d like to think that we’ve been on this journey together and now you will see the light and you can start informing yourself before you spread more misinformation, but if history is our guide you will need someone prodding you along and helping to keep you focused. What’s your take on martial law Steve, have you learned anything about that over the past few days or do you still not understand it?
Steve O,
Keep on subject…
I knew that many Chinese were still allowed to fly but did not know the Chinese government fully stopped it on the 26th of March.
There are many mixed reports as the Economist reported that many flights returned to normal in China on the 20th of March?
This is splitting hairs as the bigger problem is ALL passenger flights into AK.
There is a story on ADN today of a person from Girdwood who just returned from CO and had C-19….who else was on that flight…airport..etc?
My point always has been limiting local travel is unconstitutional and allowing unlimited domestic air travel during this pandemic is just plain stupid no matter if coming from CO, SF or Bangkok.
Steve,
You telling me to keep on subject is absolutely hilarious!!! Go back and read all the misinformation that is completely off subject you’ve posted in response to just this one comment I made.
You have no clue what you are talking about and it’s been shown time and time again, you are a misinformation machine, and a bad one at that. Another way to put it is that you sir are full of shit.
Monk, do we have a cure for liberalism yet? You would agree that has killed more than Ebola right?
Bryan,
Unfortunately, most of the lockdown to the National economy is coming from Republicans who claim to be Conservative…they also all voted unanimously for the 2.2 trillion government handout?
What would Ronnie Reagan say?
Steve, I rank Liberalism, Democrats, Communism, Nazism, Socialism, Marxism all in the same toilet..and that disease has killed over 100 million people the last century alone. Thank God the GOP is in command..Especially after seeing the FBI FISA abuses and the millions upon millions wasted on the Russian and Ukrainian hoaxes. Now we see millions more going to be wasted by Pelosi and Shifty. To say a stimulous is not warranted now is silly. Do we need Democrats loading it TO FUND their socialist agenda – NO!
I am still trying to figire out the whole shut the world down, stay indoors, shelter in place, yadda. I know, the media is sowing panic and so are the local and federal government. I get there is a lot of money involved, which obviously and always means corruption. But, what I don’t get is if 50%+ do not even know they have it and aren’t flopping over dead and another 40% get it mildly but recover what does that say? So basically, 9/10 who get Corona either show no symptoms or show mild symotoms. The 1% we worry about, the same as we normally would, and protect them from the flu already. Why? Because the FLU will kill them as well. I know, there is a vaccine but the elderly still die by the tens of thousands.
“About half of people who have the coronavirus show no symptoms, according to data from Iceland, the Italian town of Vo, and the Diamond Princess cruise ship.
Non-symptomatic people can spread the disease, but, “we know that the virus is much more likely to spread from person to person if the infected one is showing symptoms,” Njálsson said.
The good news is that a high rate of non-symptomatic cases means more people will be fine than researchers first thought.
“We all have to try to stay uninfected to keep the burden lower on hospitals until we get effective treatments and vaccines. When we get widespread testing, people can come back to work with others they trust to have been tested,” he said.
Ok-let us assume your math is correct
and there is no real concern if we let it rip.
What that means is Israel has to be the dumbest country in the world.
Or your premise and math is incorrect.
Nah Israel is so dumb, and China, and Italy, and Peru
, and France, and Spain, and …..the rest of the world so dumb.
Or possibly your premise and math is incorrect?
If we got rid of everyone over 60 and let it rip
we would would have a ruined economy from all the sick young people (immunity if any might only last a few months, survivors have scarred lungs), an overrun health care system, and still have a large number of fatalities.
Look am all for big government secret agendas, but am not for all big governments having the same secret agendas.
I’m also for being the smartest person in the world, but
when I think I am, by the very nature of thinking am the smartest person in the world am for sure not.
Bristol Bay should be a good experiment. G-d help us.
and the villages that suffer from the viral storm.
Stay safe and stay at a safe distance
Not what I am saying or implying Jeff. But, let me throw this number out there..I know, it is different but this annually for the most part. Would you say our healthcare system is strained? Would you consider these numbers alarming? Just some comparisons:
1. CDC estimates that influenza was associated with more than 35.5 million illnesses, more than 16.5 million medical visits, 490,600 hospitalizations, and 34,200 deaths during the 2018–2019 influenza season or
2.According to the CDC from April 2009 to April 2010 there were about 60.8 million US cases of the H1N1, swine flu with 12,469 deaths in the United States.
3. Hong Kong Flu killed an estimated 1 million worldwide and about 100,000 in the United States. Most excess deaths were in people 65 years and older.
According to the CDC, between 9 and 45 million Americans catch the seasonal flu each year, depending on the particular strain of the virus circulating and the effectiveness of that year’s vaccine. It takes from 12,000 to 61,000 lives annually.
4. Covid -19 updated Apr 3, 2020 (granted it has been 3 to 4 months that we know of) US Total cases: 239,279
Total deaths: 5,443
Jist saying to the layman like me, something isn’t adding up to what I am witnessing.
Bryan
if we let it rip the predictions are 2 million in the USA.
Not 30,000. The USA deaths will be much smaller than 2 million because we took action-but still around 100,000. One can’t look at the numbers and say they are insignificant because we took action so we should not have taken action. That is not logical.
Every country has done the math and came to the same conclusion, every leader, including Trump and Dunleavy, that we have to take action.
also so strange folks are like
dam china
italy
spain
germany
nyc
new orleans
etc so bad
glad its not bad here
-crank spooky music
my calculation says 1,000 tested alaska cases by 4/23
hope my calculation is wrong
Bryan,
Another way to look at is, under our restrictions, what is the math? Look at all the numbers and come up with your own formulas-your own model. What day will Alaska have 10,000 tested cases? How many total fatalities then? assuming we have flattened the curve-haven’t flooded the hospitals. It is an interesting exercise. And something everyone should do to have an educated discussion. My bet is all our numbers generally converge. Took me 50 seconds to do this in excell. What’s your 10,000 tested cases in Alaska day?
Jeff,
Over 28,000 people die every day accross the globe from Starvation (9.1 million per year).
Why do you think this does not make the National discussion?
Not to take away from C-19’s severity, but let’s keep it all in perspective.
Steve,
Throwing in random death stats changes nothing. Why did Israel essentially close their borders to Americans
almost a month ago-ruining their passover tourist season? cause they are idiots? don’t they know people die from malaria?
This viral storm will cripple America’s economy long term if not fought with stringent approaches. No one in government (likely) really cares about dead people-its an abstraction if not a close friend-family member-they care about the economy and world stability. Greater minds than you nor me with more info, across the globe have decided we need to beat this virus down-who am I to say I know better? Its not like I voted for Trump or Dunleavy or support Netanyahu, but they have done the math and come to terms this is a battle we cannot risk losing. But hey they are all idiots, every country’s leader and health advisor across the globe-no exception.
Do your own math-show us your formula. Some basics
for let it rip
70% infection rate, 20% hospitalization rate, 2 months of immunity-we don’t know this number-play with it, lung damage for survivors of 20% hospitalization (2 weeks per visit?)
What happens to those with lung damage when they get it the 2nd time? 3rd time?
of note-if no one dies we quickly have a bigger problem
with a bigger impact on out economy.
Jeff,
Your comments only prove my point.
No one cares that 28,000 people die each day from Starvation…but let’s all freak out over the flu from which over 90 percent recover and are fine.
BTW do U know how many Iraqis died from U.S. sanctions over the last 20 years?
Hint…it is way higher than deaths to C-19.
I could go on with way more examples but the ignorance is rampant these days.
Fear sells and the CDC is our new “fear factory” these days.
That is why over 20 billion will go to big Pharma for vaccine development while nothing goes to feed the 9 million accross the globe starving each year.
Hypocrisy !
Bryan,
I really don’t know on this. I go back and forth. I’m not a scientist nor am I an economist. I’m just a guy with my life’s experience and I make my call based upon that. What I do will ultimately mean fuck all.
These are unprecedented times, and not because of the disease…but also because of the disease. I thought this was all overblown when it first happened, and it was and still is if you watch any media…but that’s because this is the story of our life. No matter what this is happening and it ain’t good.
People dying kills the economy, so does doing what we’re doing
Shutting everything down or risking fate, I’m glad I’m not an elected official.
Steve -O, playing Devil’s Advocate in all this. I am NOT saying “let er rip” as Jeff says. I am saying there may be more to this story than just a virus. Look at China, they release a virus onto the world, create havoc like never seen and actually profit from it. Our elected lkcal amd federal officials will also profit off the trillions in taxpayer funding. Soros stands to profit as well.
But, again, while NOT advocating a “let er rip” strategy I do have to question the comparison. During the 2018-19 flu season, about 35 million people in the US contracted the flu and about 34,000 died, according to the CDC. We know this. During the 2018-19 season, about one out of every 1,000 people who got the flu died. However, breaking down the numbers by age range reveals a more complex story. Among children, there was about one death in every 10,000 cases. In adults between 50 and 64, about six out of every 10,000 people who got the flu died. For people 65 and older, the rate rose to about 83 out of 10,000.
The flu virus also mutates rapidly, so people can get infected by different strains, which is why the vaccine isn’t 100% effective and new vaccines are developed every year.
The Covid-19 mutates slowly amd has a death rate of 1.8% here in the US. There is no current vaccine. So, without writing it all again, we can see the flu numbers above by age group are similar to the Covid-19 death findings.
So, what we currently have is:
Flu, mutates rapidly, vaccine not always reliable, respiratory distress, death – 0.1% (1/1,000)
Covid-19, mutates slowly, vaccine unavailable, respiratory distress, death – 0.18% (1.8/1,000)
When is the “coast clear” to restart the economy, go back to work”? 12 to 18 months after a vaccine? When we get enough masks? Covid-19 will still be around 2yrs, 5yrs from now. Even with a vaccine is granny vulnerable? Even with a vaccine are the high-risk groups still vulnerable to death? What then? Do we collapse the economy then? I have no real answers and am a dumbass whose opinion means nothing. But, with all the hype and panic, I am leaning towards this being a purposeful relase of a bio-weapon in some fashion. China profitting – check. China does not care if they kill millions of 60+ or those with pre-existing conditions who drain the healthcare system. Their goal is to take over the world and you cannot do that with an aging or sick population.
Also, if you are elderly and in respiratory distress they are not even testing you. But, you could have the common flu. BUT, your death WILL be COVID-19 related. Drivi g up the numbers and kickbacks $$$.
Reminds me of an acccident.. Man wrecks his car. Has beer bottles in it from last week. The wreck goes down as an “alcohol related” accident on paper..See where I am going with all this?
Bryan,
There’s no doubt the numbers are inflated, one of the deaths linked to Alaska was a guy who lived in SE but was in Seattle in the hospital when he caught covid and dies from heart failure but happens to have covid so he goes down as a covid death. I also don’t doubt that people are and will profit from this. I get all the numbers, I’m kinda a numbers guy…pretty soon we will be talking about how this is much worse than the seasonal flu and that is with all of the precautions being taken. The problem is that if we do nothing people die and with what we are doing people die, the economy is going to take a hit no matter what.
There is no correct answer to this, we must do everything and nothing. It’s overblown and it’s not at the same time.
I cannot believe some of these comments. Some of you verge on ideals of ideology worst than socialism. Russia or Germany during WW2 – lets just kill off the weak for the good of society (here economy is used). I have cancer in remission with years left but my immune system is compromised. So I am going to die of cancer so now is ok rather than 5-10 years from now. Also cancer is not age specific. So some kids with immune system weakness we can let them go now rather than try to keep hospitals functional so when or if they come in they have a chance. So the world is on the same track because it is the right thing to do. It is not based on fear it is based on good scientific principles and moral clarity
Kenneth, the world is not responsible for your well being or safety. It is up to you to use the appropriate caution you feel necessary. Your case would be no different than protecting against the flu. Do we shut the whole world down over the flu, Heart Disease, OCPD, etc.. which kills and affects a helluva lot more than the Coronvirus. This has to do with destroying our economy and giving billions of taxpayer money to states over 1% of the population. A large portion of tjat 1% whom will die anyway of cancer, old age, diabetes, etc within a year. Doesnt have anything to do with China, Russia or Germany.
I am taking precautions but society is not and certain Republicans are being irresponsible leading to premature deaths. And do not give me the flu bs. A vaccine is allowing the herd immunity concept. This is totally different. Also we are not destroying our economy another false narrative. I am sure if you give the virus you will be first in line for a ventilator
Kenneth, you better be damned glad the GOP are in charge. Democrats kill 50% of the black population annually. I mean, my God, you prefer Biden with Dementia, Hillary with Dementia, Pelosi with Dementia, or a race husting, never held a job, “you didn’t create that”, Community Agitator from Chicago in charge? Speaks volumes. Let me let you in on something, if you are over 70, the Democrats have no use for you anymore then the Chinese do. You are a drain on their welfare system, plus, they can still use your vote even when you’re dead.
Be safe my friend.
Ken,
Ignore them-they don’t understand the math. If we let it rip
it would ruin the economy.
Ken. Am interested in whether you think the Bristol Bay fishery should be cancelled.
You are acutely aware of how many people from all around the country and indeed from other countries participate in some form in this fishery. Processors house their employees in densely populated bunk houses. Workers work side by side. Testing of the thousands that will start arriving in late May will be impossible. Permit holders will be bringing crew. Quarantine protocols will be impossible to maintain.
The risk to these small native communities is great!. Village medical facilities are inadequate in good times and woefully lacking if the virus spreads. And imo it could race through these communities like a wildfire. I would not want to be the Governor who made the decision to keep the fishery open and find out that his decision was wrong. Really wrong!
Am I unnecessarily worried?
If you’re interested, here’s a good description of the difficulty in making predictions
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-its-so-freaking-hard-to-make-a-good-covid-19-model/
A trap of the greatest magnitude. Every thing is too perfect. We are being led by the nose . How about this horrid thought. Corona virus will change the voting demographic. Killing old people reduces republicans. Democrats regain the upper hand with the brainwashed mentality inept youth . Could nasty soros minions release such a virus ? To further his agenda? Remember soros excels in times of chaos and happily creates those situations when he can- be it Nazi occupations or Bank of England . Per his own statements He has no moral scruples and high tolerance for others suffering. “ if I didn’t do it someone else would have – I would as just an observer” as he profits and creates chaos from deaths , torture , robbery and duplicity . I’m not saying it’s him or a global world order but the question must be asked when we are being led with an unreasonable fear . What’s the agenda? Who ? Why ? What’s the results. Disease far more deadly than corona has existed for eons . Why the extreme freedom stifling response now ?Serves soros and democrats backers purpose. They saw the writing on the wall and have failed in all their other attempts. A socialist society.consoldation of power . Destruction of middle class and buisness owners turning more of into government dependents. Basically enactment of Venezuela. Whether it’s on purpose or not us hard to say but the results are similar. IMO it’s to good to perfect of cover . Disease escapes in perfect scapegoat China near a lab . Attacks old people whereas most diseases hit the young harder . Spreading as a blameless hand elimination of soros adversaries, the older leaders and their followers who have been bucking his agenda. His policies fill the void saving the day changing society forever. Calls to ray on your neighbor, more privacy intrusion,electronic observation. It follows the manifesto of his allies to never stop the attack and change the method when the opposition adapts . To strike where most vulnerable and unknoledgeble . Well trumps a germaphobe buisness man . He’s not a disease scientist. IMO the opposition has found the chink in trumps armor. He has not had the experience to be prepared for this event and they knew it . The sheep are being led . Do not be one . All sighns point to a global coup . Destruction of liberty , free will and personal responsibility. Fear fear – what is it creating ? Destruction of financial stability which comprises us all and puts us into survival mode unable to take the time to think. This disease is not what it first appears. It’s a Trojan horse . Fear Fear is a truly apt title for this article.
Sir, the depth of your paranoia is astonishing. I worry about you…
Whidbey , I’ll make allowance for your observation of paranoia. Now use facts and prove it’s paranoia please. Perhaps the players I’ve named are incorrect. The results of letting fear rule our actions and responses match what I’ve stated . The results are the same regardless . You must ask yourself, is this the most deadly disease in your lifetime?( Not even close) . So then you must ask yourself why the extreme reaction that will factually effect freedoms and finances for generations unnecessarily ? Seems to me there are two possible answers. 1- is incompetence. The second is nefarious. Take your pick they both create a similar result. Now proove it’s not nefarious and being used as social control . I’m waiting for you to put your money where your mouth is and proove I’m paranoid and you aren’t just naive . Remember the rule of combat , never underestimate your enemy. Why wouldn’t someone who wants world control and a socialist system use germ warfare to make totalitarian inroads and get what they want ? I was not the first person to say all is fair in love and war . Ask yourself could I be right ? Could the outcome be the same ? The turn coat soros said about ratting out his fellow Jews and then again when destroying Englands retirement pensions and finances. I’m just an observer” “ if I hadn’t done it someone else would” perhaps the evilest most morally devoid words I ever heard spoken. Then look at what he has invested in the win loss political division situation in the world. What him and his freinds have to gain . I truly want you to proove me wrong .
Dear Steve, Bryan, and Marlin:
As a board-certified and licensed laboratorian, I know that false positives and false negatives are a part of laboratory testing. Quality control and assays of specificity must be performed to understand each test and the interferences and specificity of each with the specific target. I have had the mild two week form of the CV-19 with a direct link to my grandson’s case and his friend who had the worst symptoms of lower lung, shortness of breath and fever. His friend was diagnosed with CV-19 when there were no tests available. Unfortunately, the latest conversations on the American Association of Clinical Chemists verified my suspicions that among negative testing there is a 1 out of 3 rate of negative tests as false negative tests. I got a negative test result and did not believe it given my symptoms and the chain of exposure. This means individuals are being sent out as not contagious when they are. Herd immunity is definitely in progress. Transmission is ongoing due to the lost time for the testing and the little time to evaluate the testing specificity. Improper collection of the nasal sample can also produce insufficient viral particles to give a negative test.
Furthermore, the models are based on little data in the denominator as we do not have the data of the prevalence of the disease in the population. Stanford University scientists have expressed opinions similar to yours, that drastic measures are being implemented based on these faulty models. Fear is the rule of the day. I agree that we must protect those most vulnerable and prepare for the worst case scenario in hospitals. But it is a contradiction to think that we should do severe harm to our economy with such a poorly designed public health response. The WHO test kits were declined by our CDC in the early days of the virus pandemic here in the US. Dr. Birx stated in an early interview that there were false positives with that test. The WHO tests were declined by the US bureaucrats. South Korea used the WHO kits and had great results quarantining those with positive tests very early. Who would you rather have running around in public? A person who quarantined for 14 days for a false positive test or a person who is running around with the virus due to a false negative test?
Yesterday, a reporter who obviously read the same article that I did, asked Dr. Birx about the 1 out of 3 false negative tests. Dr. Birx was taken aback when the reporter asked about the 1 out of 3 negative tests are false negatives, a 70% specificity. She was clueless. She said she had no knowledge of such and would ask Abbott and Roche, two excellent commercial laboratories about their tests and this assertion. There are so many different tests out there now that it is difficult to assess their validity and specificity as a whole.
I think that the next ten days will give answers. We are supposed to have 100,000-200,000 deaths in the US by April 15th. We are under 6,000 right now. If the model is so flawed that it has forced such drastic actions to our economy based on miscalculations of a flawed model and fear mongering and “covering their butts” by bureaucrats, hopefully, there will be a better plan. I agree that we must protect the vulnerable. But they are not just the elderly as we are seeing. More emphasis must be placed on looking at real data and plotting a plan based on fact and real data, not fear. The economy and public welfare must also be considered. More quality control must be performed on our testing protocols for the PCR (viral particles) and the second test for antibodies to the CV-19. These must be fine-tuned to give us good weapons to implement prevention strategies. This is not being done sufficiently at this time.
We had little choice in the initial time period but to implement the lock-down because of bad early decisions made by the bureaucrats. It took weeks for them to admit that we even needed the testing as a prevention weapon. Turning down the WHO kits was irresponsible. Now it will take more to make them ensure the specificity and validity of the tests being used or at least a statement as one clinical chemist said: “A negative does not mean that you do not have CV-19, a positive means that you do.” But in two weeks when the model shows its stuff or lack thereof, it will be time for the people to speak loud and clear. Hopefully, scientists who are more knowledgeable than the career bureaucrats will speak out and the whole picture will be evaluated and a proper plan devised to protect the vulnerable without destroying our economy and the future of our country. It can be done if we have the right prevention tools, supplies, equipment and quality scientific leaders. We had such a delayed start and we are running blind right now. This scenario must change. Keep talking and speak your minds. I hope others do too. I have added my little “two bits” from my knowledge base. Stay safe.
Best to all of you,
Pat Williams
Patricia, you lost me when you started pushing the lie and Democrat talking points about the USA rejecting test kits fromnthe WHO. See if you can follow this instead of the Chinese News Network (CNN). Also, stop listening to Lunch Bucket Joe. He has Dementia.
““No discussions occurred between WHO and CDC about WHO providing COVID-19 tests to the United States,” said WHO spokesperson Margaret Harris. “This is consistent with experience since the United States does not ordinarily rely on WHO for reagents or diagnostic tests because of sufficient domestic capacity.”
According to interviews with several infectious-disease experts, Biden’s statement leaves out context about how countries decided on which test they’d use to identify the presence of the coronavirus.”
The Biden campaign referred us to a Politico article that said the WHO shipped coronavirus tests to nearly 60 countries at the end of February, but the U.S. was not among them. That is technically correct, but it suggests that the United States would have been on the list under any circumstances.
Patricia,
I agree with much of what you stated, especially regarding ongoing herd immunity.
It would be naive to think that C-19 just arrived in the U.S. after testing took place.
Chances are this virus (of which there are many different strains accross the globe) has been with our country much earlier.
A friend in Colorado said half of the small ski town was sick in February before any testing was available?
After testing was started in March, it was quickly reported the C-19 was making it’s way through town?
With false negatives, false positives, those not seeking medical attention and those which may have had it before testing…it is easy to see how the current predictions are flawed.
It is unfortunate that both state and federal government are not operating on a specific plan, but more flying by the seat of their pants.
We have seen many times in the past from viruses like: West Nile, Ebola, Sars, Zika, etc…that WHO predicted mortality was far greater than what actually materialized at hand.
Doc,
From my limited knowledge base, the way I understand nasal swabs is they basically work by taking a collection of what they come in contact with. The swab does not measure if there is an infection but only if there is a signature of the suspect virus. If the swab comes back positive it is saying that there is a virus present, but that does not mean the virus has infected the person the swab was taken from. Is that correct?
From my limited knowledge base, the way I understand the only way to verify how a virus is actually confirmed to be present is a blood test. Is that correct?
Steve O,
Until we test for antibodies in the blood we have no way to tell how many people were exposed and were Asymptomatic or “got over it”.
The figures thrown at us have little relevance other than to show cases going up…of course there are new cases since we just started testing.
The real question is when did this flu really start in America?
Steve,
First, I was addressing the good doctor.
Second, you in no way shape or form even tried to answer my questions, so why would you even respond to my questions to the good doctor?
Third, this doesn’t require a response on your part.
There are few logic fallacies in these discussions.
A) The number of deaths are predicted to be over 2 million in the USA if we just let it rip not 80,000.
B) Folks under 60 are hospitalized also. If we made everyone over 60 disappear, and let it rip, the causality rate would be significant because we would run out of medical resources. of note You can’t make the over 60 folks disappear nor protect them if we let it rip.
C) We are medical resource limited, were unprepared, delayed action and choose poor tactics. These are the real problems.
D) If we let it rip all the sick people would cripple our economy anyhow.
E) Many a country and state has tried the let it rip mentality and eventually at the cost of unneeded life loss have moved to regulations.
F) The economy will recover. If you think you will recover from corona go get it and then go to a remote cabin and let us know how it goes. What could go wrong? Please don’t do this.
G) Corona sux. The fact that is asymptomatic and contagious makes it very very dangerous. If we all wore masks like they did, do in S Korea we might have been able to keep the economy open. If we were set up testing. Lots of ifs and failures in preparation and tactics.
H) Craig thnx for these articles, initiating discussion.
I) Look at NYC’s numbers-the viral storm is coming
I’ve seen where they are working on a test to see if a person has antibodies from covid, this would be a massive game changer for getting the economy fired back up. If a person has immunity and can return to work we can keep those at highest risk safe while developing a vaccine and not completely cratering the world’s economy.
Hmm, wonder who they could be talking about?
“They are the same people who have been telling us, ‘This will be great for America and the world if we integrate our economy with China … it will be great if we have a global economy where we send jobs overseas.’ Turns out, they’ve been wrong about all of that. It’s been terrible for America and now, we are living with the results,” he continued.
Hawley claimed that as the U.S. struggles to get a grip on the virus, China is hoping to take advantage of a weakened American society.
“They clearly see it as a strategic opportunity, the same way they see everything. They have a plan, they want to be the central power, the dominant world power”
It is not clear if immunity lasts but a few months
nor if scarred lungs will heal. That said, knowing true
infection rates is impossible without the test you mention.
Steve O,
How does a tweet like this from mayor de Blasio make U feel after our discussion yesterday?
“I was clear with the President that we need nothing less than the full mobilization of the military.
This is a wartime dynamic and right now too much of what is happening is on a peacetime basis.
There’s a disconnect we have to fix immediately because this crisis is only growing.”
Does that sound like martial law to U?
Steve,
I’m not sure why you are so concerned with how I feel about a tweet, what is it with you and your feels anyways?
What I think about that tweet is that if I were a resident of New York City I would leave the city immediately. I would vote for a different guy next time, if I were still there next time a vote were held which after martial law was declared is anybody’s guess. He is admitting he has failed at the job he volunteered to do and ran a couple of campaigns to win the honor to do. He is also obviously as ignorant as you were a day ago about martial law, if anything he should be petitioning his governor first, or maybe Congress…definitely not twitter. Congress, Governors and the President can declare martial law, any of them could declare it in New York City. He also obviously does not understand that declaring martial law means that he would immediately become a civilian and be forced to do whatever it is that the military decides, if he does understand this he should resign immediately because he is not up to the job. With martial law in place the military becomes the legislature, the police force, the judge, the jury, and the executioner. Only a complete idiot would welcome martial law.
And Steve, we didn’t have a discussion yesterday, I tried to help you understand what martial law is and you refused to accept the definition of what martial law is and you still have yet to do so. You have chosen to remain willfully ignorant.
Unfortunately it appears Katz is correct.
I believe there were 7 new cases of Coronavirus yesterday in Alaska (down from 10 the day before) yet we are seeing 7,000 jobless claims in the week across the state.
The politicians who are mostly of the “boomer” generation are making their decisions based out of fear…driven by the medical community.
Liberties are stripped away day by day across the U.S. while we are told how we can move about and which activities we can do. (This is social engineering just like in China, Saudi or Russia)
The educational system has been dismantled in weeks and families are told they cannot even visit dying patients (many of whom were “dying” before the virus hit).
I am not sure of the best path forward, but I am pretty convinced it involves an N95 mask and social distancing…not Martial Law!
Steve, as you know I recently, well, few months back returned from China. I noticed masks, cameras (lots of them), gov control, and the leader in robotics (I see the same here in America). Now fast forward a few years. Because of the pandemic, where do you think we will be in a few years? Hint, you mention 7,000 jobless claims. Excuse for more robotics, less manpower in the name of production and “social distancing”? Will there be robotics (upper class), the “Great Divide” (missing middle class), and then manual labor (3rd world lower class)? Is this pandemic the start of the end of labor? A trial of obedience and mass “welfare”? Glad I am older but, we will all be slaves to a higher power of some form. Think Globalization, productivity, control, obedience, domination.
Bryan,
Unfortunately not much thought has gone to the idea of biological warfare.
An Expert that I am friends with in NYC told me that it would be impossible to tell if this virus was natural or man made?
This current situation with 6.6 million new jobless claims across America with a projection of 50,000 in Alaska alone has paralyzing effects for our GDP.
Robotics and AI will replace many of the jobs in the name of “safety” as we are told to walk, hike or jog but do not just sit on a beach and read a book.
Places in Colorado have “up mountain” closures that prevent skiers from “skinning” up the hills even if traveling alone?
Americans have always felt that we were ready to fight to defend our freedom but these current adversaries are hidden far from our sight.
All of the stuff we talked about for years like rising national debt and Chinese influence with acquired Treasury Bonds is quickly coming home to roost.
The CDC and WHO are driven by UN leaders from around the globe…china has a key seat at the table.
Instead of promoting safe ways of social distancing ourselves outside, we are told primarily to shelter in place.
I am fortunate to have private property and space to go out to recreate, but many in urban centers are mostly stuck inside.
This unnatural lockdown will have psychological consequences to families accross the nation as domestic violence and mental illness play their roles in the weeks ahead.
In the coming months, unemployment will be around 30 percent, figures unseen since the great depression.
Hopefully Americans can remember that the last global depression led to a world war, only this time it would not be won by boots on the ground but through much more insidious ways.
Personally, I could see a bio-weapon that got out if hand without finger prints per say.
China can only feed it’s 1.7 billion people using 11% of its land. What is losing a few million elders who are basically a drain on the “Party”?
I do believe we are seeing an over-reaction unless there is validity to my assumption.
80,000 deaths and no restrictions:
Last year, more than 80,000 people died of the flu and its complications in the United States, the highest death toll for the disease in at least four decades.
The current flu season started at the beginning of October and lasts until May. As of Feb. 9, between 15.4 million and 17.8 million people nationwide have caught the flu, the Centers for Disease and Control reported.
Two million of those cases came in the week that ended Feb. 9. The CDC warned that was the highest flu activity it has seen this season, USA Today reported.
There have been 11,600 to 19,100 deaths so far.
A total of 34 influenza-associated pediatric deaths have been reported to CDC for this season. For the 2017-2018 season, 185 pediatric flu deaths were reported.
Between 184,000 and 221,000 people have been hospitalized with the flu so far this season.
The CDC said the flu typically kills 12,000 to 56,000 people in the U.S. in a year.
Hmm, we have already thrown trillions of taxpayer dollars at it..Just like socialism, just throw trillions more at it.. Yep, that ought to save us all.
Yep,sailed right thru republicrat controlled senate.
Signed by same party Prez.
Who’s your daddy now
Come on Dave, it was held up by Pelosi so she could load it with Communist agenda pork. You know this but chose to ignore it. Pelosi and Shifty just put together another wasted $50 million “commission” to see why Democrats called Trump a racist and Xenophobe for shutting down travel from China Jan 30th. Oh wait…
Either they signed it,or they didnt.What did senate body and executive (with the best aids $’s could buy)do?
There will be a fourth package,senate taking a wait and see attitude.So they can initially say they were against “wasteful spending”
Smart politics,i’d do the same thing
They will be more than happy to send pork home to districts
Pretty sure that scientists have learned that corona viruses can jump from animals to humans so don’t understand why it couldn’t happen with this virus. Also can’t understand why China would want to blow up their economy to take over the world. Also can’t understand why a guy that survived the Holocaust and donates billions to charity is the global boogeyman. Moreover, can’t understand how anyone that sees freezer vans, field hospitals and shortage of ventilators takes this lightly. I do know one thing and that is I will ALWAYS listen to Fauci before Trump!